{"id":10055,"date":"2024-03-28T16:27:44","date_gmt":"2024-03-28T15:27:44","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/?p=10055"},"modified":"2025-10-17T11:26:05","modified_gmt":"2025-10-17T09:26:05","slug":"atcct-faux-dilemme","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/atcct-faux-dilemme\/","title":{"rendered":"ATC Dilemme moral"},"content":{"rendered":"

MenciusEno <\/sub>B<\/strong>OOK <\/strong>6, G<\/strong>AOZI <\/strong><\/p>\n

6B.1 <\/strong>A man from Ren asked Wuluzi, \u201cWhich is more important, ritual or food?\u201d
\n\u201cRitual is more important,\u201d said Wuluzi.
\n\u201cWhich is more important, sex or ritual?\u201d
\n\u201cRitual is more important.\u201d
\n\u201cWhat if you would starve to death if you insisted on ritual, but you could get food if you didn\u2019t. Would you still have to abide by ritual? What if by skipping the ritual groom\u2019s visit to receive the bride you could take a wife [1], but otherwise you could not? Would you still insist on the groom\u2019s ritual visit?\u201d<\/p>\n

Wuluzi was unable to reply, and the next day he went to Zou to consult with Mencius.<\/p>\n

Mencius said, \u201cWhat\u2019s difficult about this? And inch long wood chip could measure higher than a building if we hold its tip up above and ignore the difference in what is below. When we say that gold is heavier than feathers, we don\u2019t mean a buckle\u2019s worth of gold and a cartload of feathers! If you compare the extremity of need for food with a minor ritual, it\u2019s not just food that can seem more weighty. If you compare the extremity of need for joining of the sexes with a minor ritual, it\u2019s not just sex that can seem more weighty.<\/p>\n

\u201cGo back and respond to him like this: \u2018What if you could get food you need only by twisting your elder brother\u2019s arm \u2013 would you twist it? What if you could get a wife only by climbing over your neighbor\u2019s east wall and dragging his daughter off \u2013 would you do it?\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n

<\/h1>\n

Note Eno
\n<\/strong>II. \u201cBalancing\u201d: the art of rule violation<\/strong>
\nThe two passages\u00a0 [6B1 and 6B2] in this section focus on a notion closely related to timeliness \u2013 when are we
\nlicensed to violate rules? Confucian texts grant the junzi who is truly at the level of sage full
\nviolation to do so, but do not want to grant that authority to everyone. After all, li are rules, and if they are not important, what basis is left for a ritualist tradition like Confucianism?<\/p>\n

https:\/\/chinatxt.sitehost.iu.edu\/Thought\/Mengzi5.pdf<\/p>\n

***<\/h1>\n

Two dilemma<\/strong>, to test Wuluzi dialectical capacities and \/ his adherence to li<\/em>, and determination to follow the rule<\/p>\n

A or B?\u00a0 (or = W)
\n1) no food or no ritual (in general)
\n2) no sex or no Ritual = sex at the price of a violation of the ritual of the groom’s visit no food
\nFood => no ritual<\/p>\n

\u201cThe ritual groom\u2019s visit to receive the bride\u201d [1] An essential part of the wedding ceremony, that is an important ritual
\nSuppose that ritual will be sacrified to human needs<\/p>\n

2) Mencius distinguishes beetween major and minor forms of ritual, and reformulates the opposition in relation with two major forms of ritual.<\/p>\n

\u2022 Two violent acts
\n\u2014 twisting your elder brother\u2019s arm
\n\u2014 climbing over your neighbor\u2019s east wall and dragging his daughter off \u2013<\/p>\n

Suppose that in this case the consensus would on rejecting the condition<\/p>\n

\n
\n
\n

____________________<\/p>\n[1] Couvreur, Liji, Chap. 41 Signification des c\u00e9r\u00e9monies de mariage<\/strong><\/p>\n

2. \u2022(Le temps des noces arrive\u0301), le pe\u0300re du fiance\u0301 offrait lui-me\u0302me a\u0300 son fils une coupe de liqueur, et lui ordonnait d\u2019aller chercher sa fiance\u0301e ; (car en toutes choses) c\u2019e\u0301tait l\u2019homme qui devait prendre l\u2019initiative, et non la femme. Le fils, obe\u0301issant a\u0300 l\u2019ordre de son pe\u0300re, allait chercher sa fiance\u0301e. Le chef de la famille de la fiance\u0301e faisait pre\u0301parer des nattes et des escabeaux dans la salle de ses ance\u0302tres et allait saluer et accueillir le fiance\u0301 de sa fille hors de la grande porte. Celui-ci entrait tenant une oie. Le beau-pe\u0300re et le gendre se saluaient, se faisaient des politesses, l\u2019un invitant l\u2019autre a\u0300 monter a\u0300 la salle le premier, et ils montaient. Le fiance\u0301 de\u0301posait son oie et saluait deux fois. C\u2019e\u0301tait ainsi qu\u2019il recevait en personne sa f iance\u0301e des mains des parents. Ensuite il descendait de la salle,<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

MenciusEno BOOK 6, GAOZI 6B.1 A man from Ren asked Wuluzi, \u201cWhich is more important, ritual or food?\u201d \u201cRitual is more important,\u201d said Wuluzi. \u201cWhich is more important, sex or ritual?\u201d \u201cRitual is more important.\u201d \u201cWhat if you would starve to death if you insisted on ritual, but you could get food if you didn\u2019t. […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[26],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-10055","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-atc"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10055","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=10055"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10055\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":13141,"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10055\/revisions\/13141"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=10055"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=10055"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=10055"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}