{"id":12739,"date":"2024-12-18T03:22:47","date_gmt":"2024-12-18T02:22:47","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/?p=12739"},"modified":"2025-10-17T20:48:26","modified_gmt":"2025-10-17T18:48:26","slug":"atc-do-you-think-yan-should-be-attacked","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/atc-do-you-think-yan-should-be-attacked\/","title":{"rendered":"ATC Do you think Yan should be attacked\u00a0?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n\n
ATC\u00a0<\/span><\/strong><\/span><\/td>\nDo you think Yan should be attacked?
\nWho should attack Yan?<\/span><\/strong><\/span><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n

Mencius, \u201cIf he had asked me, \u2018Who should attack Yan?\u2019\u201d<\/span> <\/strong><\/h1>\n

2B.8 <\/strong>Shen Tong<\/u><\/strong> asked Mencius in private confidence, \u201cDo you think Yan ought to be attacked?\u201d<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Mencius said, \u201cYes<\/strong>. Zikuai had no authority to give Yan away, and Zizhi had no authority to receive it from Zikuai. Let\u2019s say there was a gentleman here whom you liked; what if you, without consulting the King, privately granted to him your court rank and salary, and he accepted them without any commission from the King? What difference is there in the case of Yan?\u201d<\/p>\n

The armies of Qi attacked Yan, and someone said to Mencius, \u201cIs it true that you urged Qi to attack Yan?\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cNever!<\/strong>\u201d said Mencius. \u201cShen Tong asked whether Yan ought to be attacked and I said yes, in response to his question. Then they went off and attacked Yan! If he had asked me, \u2018Who should attack Yan?<\/strong>\u2019<\/span> I would have replied, \u2018He who acts as the agent of Tian should attack Yan.\u2019<\/p>\n

\u201cLet\u2019s say there were a murderer here, and someone asked, \u2018Should this man be executed?\u2019 I would say yes. If he asked, \u2018Who should execute him?\u2019 I would reply, \u2018The Chief Judge should execute him.\u2019<\/p>\n

\u201cAs it is, this is simply one Yan attacking another Yan. Why would I ever urge such a thing?\u201d<\/p>\n

2B.8 <\/strong>We return here to events surrounding Qi\u2019s invasion of Yan in 314<\/strong> (see 1B.10-11). Mencius is reported in a different early text to have given his approval of the invasion of Yan by Qi, and here the Mencius <\/em>seems at pains to explain that this is not so. Note how it is specified that the courtier Shen Tong visited Mencius in an unofficial capacity.<\/p>\n

The background events in Yan are that the ruler, Zikuai, abdicated to his minister, Zizhi, prompting Zikuai\u2019s son \u2013 the original heir to the throne \u2013 to initiate a civil war.<\/p>\n

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Deux questions<\/p>\n

Stase sur l’acte : Question1:\u00a0 \u2014\u00a0Y a-t-il eu meurtre? OUI
\n<\/strong>[\u2014\u00a0le meurtrier doit \u00eatre puni = ex\u00e9cut\u00e9]\n

Stase sur l’agent Question2:\u00a0 \u2014\u00a0Qui<\/strong> doit prendre en charge l’ex\u00e9cution?<\/p>\n

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Dictionnaire, Composition et division<\/a><\/p>\n

L’exemple suivant est emprunt\u00e9 au drame de Sophocle \u00c9lectre<\/em> : Clytemnestre tue son mari, Agamemnon. Oreste, leur fils, tue Clytemnestre pour venger son p\u00e8re. Mais avait-il le droit l\u00e9gal et moral de tuer sa m\u00e8re\u00a0?<\/p>\n

Il est juste que celle qui a tu\u00e9 son mari meure, et il est juste aussi, assur\u00e9ment que le fils venge son p\u00e8re ; ces deux actions ont donc \u00e9t\u00e9 accomplies justement ; mais peut-\u00eatre que, r\u00e9unies, elles cessent d\u2019\u00eatre justes. (Rh\u00e9t<\/em>., II, 24,1401a35-b5\u00a0; p. 407).<\/p>\n

R\u00e9unir les deux actions signifie qu’elles n’en font plus qu’une. Oreste soutient que cette composition est licite\u00a0:<\/p>\n

Composition<\/em>\u00a0: X<\/strong> est juste et<\/em> Y<\/strong> est juste => X<\/strong> et<\/em> Y<\/strong> sont justes
\n(X<\/strong>) \u201cvenger son p\u00e8re\u201d est juste et<\/em> \u201c (Y<\/strong>) ex\u00e9cuter la femme qui a tu\u00e9 son mari\u201d est juste<\/p>\n

Or si \u201cvenger son p\u00e8re\u201d est juste, \u201ctuer sa m\u00e8re\u201d est un crime. Pour les accusateurs d’Oreste, le fait qu’il soit le fils de Clytemnestre bloque la composition, car il n’est pas possible de composer une action vertueuse et une action criminelle. La stase dramatique se noue autour de l’argument de la composition.<\/p>\n

Cette technique de d\u00e9composition d\u2019une action douteuse en une suite d\u2019actes louables, ou au moins innocents est argumentativement tr\u00e8s productive : voler, ce n\u2019est jamais que prendre le sac qui se trouve l\u00e0, le d\u00e9placer ailleurs et n\u00e9gliger de le remettre \u00e0 la m\u00eame place. La division bloque l\u2019\u00e9valuation globale.<\/p>\n

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 <\/p>\n

What Is Shun's Awful Family Doing in the Mencius?<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n