{"id":9994,"date":"2024-03-23T10:54:31","date_gmt":"2024-03-23T09:54:31","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/?p=9994"},"modified":"2025-10-17T11:26:41","modified_gmt":"2025-10-17T09:26:41","slug":"atcct-thought-experiment","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/atcct-thought-experiment\/","title":{"rendered":"ATCThought Experiment"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n\n
\n

ATC<\/span><\/h2>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/td>\n

\n

A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT:<\/span>
\n\u00ab\u00a0Imagine a small child on the verge of falling down into a well\u2026\u00a0\u00bb<\/span><\/h2>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n

Mencius, bce<\/h2>\n

2A.6 \u2014 <\/strong>Why do I say that all people possess within them a moral sense that cannot bear the suffering of others? Well, imagine now a person who, all of a sudden, sees a small child on the verge of falling down into a well. Any such person would experience a sudden sense of fright and dismay. This feeling would not be something he summoned up in order to establish good relations with the child\u2019s parents. He would not purposefully feel this way in order to win the praise of their friends and neighbors. Nor would he feel this way because the screams of the child would be unpleasant.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cBy imagining this situation we can see that one who lacked a sense of dismayed commiseration in such a case simply could not be a person. Moreover, anyone who lacks the sense of shame cannot be a person; anyone who lacks a sense of deference cannot not be a person; anyone who lacks a sense of right and wrong cannot not be a person.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cThe sense of commiseration is the seed of humanity, the sense of shame is the seed of righteousness, <\/em>the sense of deference is the seed of ritual, and the sense of right and wrong is the seed of wisdom. Everyone possesses these four moral senses just as they possess their four limbs. To possess such seeds and yet claim to be unable to call them forth is to rob oneself; and for a person to claim that his ruler is incapable of such moral feelings is to rob his ruler.<\/strong>
\n(MenciusENO<\/sub><\/strong> 2A6)<\/p>\n

\n

This thought experiment is critical in the Mencius<\/em>, and for it to be understood, emphasis must be placed on the suddenness of the encounter, and the fact that Mencius is making a claim about a true universal: the way all people would react, not about what action they would take.
\nThe idea that certain moral senses are essential to personhood is also explicit in 6A.6, which serves as a companion passage to this one.<\/p>\n

Pour d\u00e9crire l\u2019argumentation d\u00e9velopp\u00e9e dans le texte de Mencius (exemple 2.2), nous utiliserons une m\u00e9thode d\u00e9riv\u00e9e de celle qu\u2019utilise Grize for the argumentative operations argumentatives building the objetcs of discours<\/em><\/a>.<\/p>\n

An argumentation, {data, claim}<\/h2>\n

The argument is the description of an fictive situation and its developments. corresponding to the specific thought experiment. Here, this description bears on two partners,the physical situation of the child and a guess concernint the mental states of the person seeing him.
\nThis grossly described situation
\nNothing is said about the mental state of the child, for example, if he is afraid of playing with the images reflected in the well, nor about the position of the person in relation with the child.. the claim is on the mental state of the person, we imagine an adult, in the picture: Any such person would experience a sudden sense of fright and dismay. <\/strong><\/p>\n

L\u2019argumentation positive<\/u><\/em><\/h3>\n

(i) Situation<\/strong>
\n<\/strong>La situation envisag\u00e9e par Mencius d\u00e9crit sch\u00e9matiquement un fait sans doute rare mais possible :<\/p>\n

Imagine now a person who, all of a sudden, sees a small child on the verge of falling down into a well.<\/strong> <\/em><\/p>\n

Cette situation d\u00e9crit une sc\u00e8ne et rapporte une perception, sans la lier \u00e0 aucune action. Le destinataire peut se projeter dans cette situation. Mencius en d\u00e9rive une th\u00e8se, en deux \u00e9tapes.<\/p>\n

On peut sans doute imaginer une exp\u00e9rience, portant non pas sur un individu particulier ni sur l\u2019humanit\u00e9 enti\u00e8re, qui prendrait pour base non pas les r\u00e9actions \u00e0 une situation r\u00e9elle, mais \u00e0 une situation repr\u00e9sent\u00e9e<\/p>\n

(ii) Attribution d\u2019un \u00e9tat mental<\/strong> accompagnant\u00a0 n\u00e9cessairement la perception de la sc\u00e8ne primitive :<\/p>\n

Any such person would experience a sudden sense of fright and dismay.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Cette d\u00e9rivation est fond\u00e9e sur une intuition, un sentiment d\u2019\u00e9vidence ou de r\u00e9v\u00e9lation int\u00e9rieure, accessible par introspection.<\/p>\n

Cette conclusion serait balay\u00e9e par l\u2019hypoth\u00e8se cart\u00e9sienne du Malin G\u00e9nie.
\nL\u2019introspection fournit une conclusion en premi\u00e8re personne : \u201cI would experience\u2026<\/em>\u201d.
\nMencius ne dit pas\u00a0 que l\u2019enfant \u00e9tait sauvable, ni que la personne \u00e9mue \u201cse pr\u00e9cipiterait pour sauver l\u2019enfant\u201d. L\u2019interpr\u00e9tation est compatible avec \u201cse sauverait effray\u00e9 \/ par peur d\u2019\u00eatre pris dans une sale affaire\u201d.<\/p>\n

(iii) Op\u00e9rations argumentatives: Sp\u00e9cification, Re-cat\u00e9gorisation, G\u00e9n\u00e9ralisation <\/strong><\/p>\n

Cette conclusion d\u2019abord cat\u00e9goris\u00e9e comme une \u201cexperience<\/em>\u201d, est ensuite re-cat\u00e9goris\u00e9e, ou pr\u00e9cis\u00e9e\u00a0 comme a moral sense<\/em>, un sentiment moral<\/em>\u00a0:<\/p>\n

all people possess within them a moral sense that cannot bear the suffering of others<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Sur le plan de la disposition textuelle, l\u2019objet de discours ainsi d\u00e9velopp\u00e9 correspond \u00e0 la suite :<\/p>\n

a sudden sense of fright and dismay \u2026 [an experience] \u2026a moral sense\u2026 dismayed commiseration<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Ici, le moteur argumentatif n\u2019est pas l\u2019inf\u00e9rence mais des op\u00e9rations de sp\u00e9cification et de re-cat\u00e9gorisation. Sur le plan conceptuel, par abstraction croissante on a\u00a0:<\/p>\n

\u00a0[an experience] <\/em>> specified as<\/strong> a sudden sense of fright and dismay<\/em>
\n<\/em>> re-categorized\u00a0 as<\/strong> a specifc moral sense, dismayed commiseration<\/em><\/p>\n

Cette d\u00e9rivation s\u2019accompagne de deux g\u00e9n\u00e9ralisations portant sur l\u2019\u00eatre vis\u00e9 par\u00a0 ce sentiment moral, et sur l\u2019autre sur la situation, globalement\u00a0 d\u2019un risque individuel de souffrance \u00e0 la souffrance de tous<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n\n
a small child<\/em><\/td>\n> g\u00e9n\u00e9ralisation ><\/strong><\/td>\nothers<\/em><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
on the verge of falling down into a well <\/em><\/td>\n> g\u00e9n\u00e9ralisation ><\/strong><\/td>\nsufferings<\/em><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n

(iv) Cette conclusion est test\u00e9e par application du topos des contraires<\/strong><\/p>\n

all people possess within them a moral sense that cannot bear the suffering of others<\/em>
\none who lacked a sense of dismayed commiseration in such a case simply could not be a person.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

{Humans] would experience a sudden sense of fright and dismay, soit <\/em>H<\/em><\/strong> would experience F<\/em>
\n<\/em><\/strong>\u2014 par application du topos des contraires : non-H would experience non-F
\nen d\u2019autres termes, one who lacked a sense of dismayed commiseration in such a case simply could not be a person.<\/em><\/p>\n

(v) Sur-exploitation<\/strong>
\n<\/strong>Une troisi\u00e8me \u00e9tape introduite par \u201cmoreover<\/em>\u201d affirme l\u2019existence de quatre sentiments moraux d\u00e9finissant l\u2019\u00eatre humain : la g\u00e9n\u00e9ralisation est port\u00e9e par une analogie :<\/p>\n

humanity, righteousness, ritual, right and wrong<\/em>.
\nEveryone possesses these four moral senses just as they possess their four limbs<\/em><\/p>\n

Objections et r\u00e9futation<\/u><\/em><\/h3>\n

La nature argumentative du texte est\u00a0 attest\u00e9e par la mention d\u2019objections possibles (prolepse<\/a>), de nature utilitariste :<\/p>\n

\u2014\u00a0something he summoned up in order to establish good relations with the child\u2019s parents.<\/em>
\n\u2014\u00a0purposefully feel this way in order to win the praise of their friends and neighbors<\/em>
\n\u2014 because the screams of the child would be unpleasant.<\/em><\/p>\n

Ces objections sont rejet\u00e9es, non pas discut\u00e9es et r\u00e9fut\u00e9es.
\nElles sont exploit\u00e9es par une argumentation implicite ad ignorantiam<\/em> \u2013 cas par cas: on ne peut pas imaginer d\u2019autres ressorts \u00e0 l\u2019action secourable.<\/p>\n

On peut opposer \u00e0 la conclusion de Mencius la th\u00e8se de Xunzi (3e si\u00e8cle av. JC) selon laquelle \u201cHuman nature is bad\u201d<\/p>\n

Human nature is bad. Their goodness is a matter of deliberate effort. [\u2026] They are born with feelings of hate and dislike with them.<\/strong> Xunzi, Chap 25, Human Nature is bad,<\/em> p. 248.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

ATC \u00a0 A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT: \u00ab\u00a0Imagine a small child on the verge of falling down into a well\u2026\u00a0\u00bb Mencius, bce 2A.6 \u2014 Why do I say that all people possess within them a moral sense that cannot bear the suffering of others? Well, imagine now a person who, all of a sudden, sees a small […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[26],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-9994","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-atc"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9994","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=9994"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9994\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":14919,"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9994\/revisions\/14919"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=9994"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=9994"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/icar.cnrs.fr\/dicoplantin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=9994"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}