Archives de catégorie : ATC

ATC Analogie: Une analyse en parallèle de deux traductions

ATC

Méthode
Deux traductions d’une même analogie

Cet exemple est tiré de la discussion de Mencius[2] avec Gaozi (Kao Tzu)[3] telle qu’elle est rapportée dans le texte de Mengzi. La discussion porte sur deux concepts fondamentaux du confucianisme, human nature, righteousness,morality. Gaozi tente de les éclairer par une analogie avec le saule, dont on fait des tasses et des bols. Mencius rejette vivement cette analogie, qu’il estime inadéquate.

Nous nous bornerons à deux traductions, celle de Robert Eno et celle de Dim Cheuk Lau, soit MenciusEno et MenciusLau (notre présentation et numérotation),

MengziEno, 6A.1 MenciusLau, VIA 1
1a Gaozi said, “Human nature is like the willow tree, and righteousness is like cups and bowls. 1a Kao Tzu said, Human nature is like the ch’i willow. Dutifulness is like cups and bowls.
1b Drawing humanity and right from human nature is like making cups and bowls from willow wood.” 1b To make morality out of human nature is like making cups and bowls out of the willow.
2a Mencius said, “Can you make cups and bowls from willow wood by following its natural grain, or is it only after you have hacked the willow wood that you can make a cup or bowl? 2a Can you, said Mencius, make cups and bowls by following the nature of the willow? 2b Or must you mutilate the willow before you can make it into cups and bowls?
2c If you must hack the willow to make cups and bowls from it, must you hack people in order to make them humane and righteous? 2c If you have to mutilate the willow to make it into cups and bowls, must you then also mutilate a man to make him moral?
2d Your words will surely lead the people of the world to destroy humanity and right. 2d Surely it will be these words of yours, men in the world will follow in bringing disaster upon morality.

Il s’agit clairement d’un échange de type dialectique entre deux philosophes. Gaozi avance une analogie explicitée par la construction A is like B pour illustrer sa conception de la nature humaine.

Les deux traductions utilisent la même expression, human nature (1a) pour désigner le thème général du débat. Le problème posé par Gaozi concerne l’émergence d’une capacité complexe désignée par les termes suivants (le signe “>” indique que les termes entrent dans la chaîne dont l’ensemble correspond à un même objet de discours),[4]

 

MengziEno MenciusLau
righteousness (1a)

> humanity and right (1b)

> [(to make them) humane and righteous (2b)

> humanity and right (2c)

dutifulness (1a)

> morality (1b)

> (to make him) moral (2b)

> morality (2c)

Mencius n’intervient pas sur le concept en discussion, mais seulement sur l’analogie utilisée par Gaozi. Il développe l’analogie en mettant au premier plan la nature de la transformation subie par le saule pour devenir bol et tasse

MengziEno MenciusLau
making cups and bowls from willow wood (1b) making cups and bowls out of the willow (1b)

Pour désigner le processus affectant le saule, dans les deux traductions, Gaotzi emploie le prédicat abstrait “making C from / out of W”, qui n’a pas d’orientation argumentative définie. Le texte poursuit par une question de Mencius

MengziEno MenciusLau
2b hacked the willow wood

 

must you hack people in order to make them humane and righteous?

mutilate the willow

 

must you then mutilate a man to make him moral?

 

Toujours dans les deux traductions Mencius adopte en quelque sorte le point de vue du saule. MenciusLau utilise le mot mutilate, ayant une orientation argumentative négative. L’expression “mutilating W in order to make C”, met ainsi au premier plan la nature négative de la transformation du saule en bol et en tasse. L’éclairage de l’opération change du tout au tout. Avec hack, MengziEno ajoute la sensation d’un instrument tranchant, parfaitement cohérent avec l’idée de mutilation “hack W [into] C”.

Et, sur la base de l’analogie proposée par Gaozi lui-même, il transfère l’opération sur les humains (processus marqué par then dans MenciusLau)

Nous concluons que les traductions disent clairement ce qu’elles veulent dire, et qu’il s’agit d’une argumentation par analogie, rejetée par l’opposant qui met en défaut cette analogie, en dégageant une faille dans sa structure.

En conséquence, ce cas peut donc être utilisé, sous l’une ou l’autre traduction, à toutes fins utiles lorsqu’il s’agit d’argumentation. La seule réserve porte sur le statut des concepts sur lesquels s’exerce l’analogie (righteouness, dutifulness, humanity, morality), que nous ne sommes pas en capacité de discuter.

 

[1] La référence à la “traduction d’Untel des Analectes de Confucius” sera parfois abrégée comme suit : “AnalectesUntel” avec le nom du traducteur en indice.

[2] Mengzi (= Mencius), 372 – 289 AÈC. Mencius est le nom romanisé du philosophe chinois Meng Ke ou Mengzi, et le titre de l’ouvrage contenant ses paroles.

[3] Gaozi (= Kao-tzu = Gao Buhai), vers 420-350 AÈC « Gaozi était un contemporain de Mencius. L’essentiel de ce que nous savons de lui provient du livre 6 de Mencius, intitulé Gaozi » (Wikipedia, Gaozi).

[4] Pour une présentation de ces concepts et du concept d’éclairage (utilisé infra) de J.-B. Grize, voir Plantin 2016 ou 2022 Objet de discours ; Schématisatisation.

ATCCT — Self-Contradiction, Face-to-face Contradiction


The principle of non-contradiction is at the root of reasoning. Everyday argumentation could be defined as a style of conversation in which the principle of coherence applies: If you hold incompatible things in different contexts, you owe the other participants an explanation; if you hold incompatible things in the same context, you make conversation impossible, we have to stop it

Self-coherence of feelings

The following case appeals to the self-coherence of feelings (Leslie 1964):

12.10 Zizhang asked about […] discerning confusion. The Master said […] When one cherishes a person, one wishes him to live; when one hates a person, one wishes him to die – on the one hand cherishing and wishing him life, while on the other hating and wishing him death: that is confusion.
Truly, it is not a matter of riches, Indeed, it is simply about discernment. (AnalectsEno, 12) 

Interpersonal contradiction

Like self-contradiction, interpersonal contradiction demands clarification. Disagreement stimulates intellectual activity.
Confucius says that he prefers disagreement: 

The Master said, Hui is of no help to me. There is nothing in my words that fails to please him. (AnalectsEno, 11, 4)

Nonetheless, it is unpleasant for a teacher to be critically confronted with its own teaching (our presentation:

Zilu appointed Zigao to be the steward of Bi.
The Master said “You are stealing another man’s son!”
Zilu said, “There are people there; there are altars of state there – why must one first read texts and only then be considered learned?”
The Master said, “This is why I detest glib talkers!” (AnalectsEno, 11, 25)

Note Eno: Zilu seems to be invoking lessons Confucius himself taught, much like the ideas in 1.6-7, to confound Confucius himself, which is the basis of Confucius’s response.

Confucius teaches that the basic condition to be called learned can be extended to persons on the way to become a learned person

AnalectsEno, 1.7,
Zixia said: If a person treats worthy people as worthy and so alters his expression, exerts all his effort when serving his parents, exhausts himself when serving his lord, and is trustworthy in keeping his word when in the company of friends, though others may say he is not yet learned, I would call him learned.

In this last passage (1,7), Confucius characterizes a learned person by his correct behavior toward worthy people, his parents, his lord, his friends, and seems to attach only secondary importance to reading texts. In 11, 25 Zilu – a very bold disciple of Confucius –  indirectly reminds him of his former position.


 

ATCCT — Argumentation practice without argumentation theory

ATC Argumentation practice without argumentation theory

The following remarks are based upon A. C. Graham’s views on the Chinese way of argumentation, as presented in his Disputers of the Tao. Philosophical Argument in Ancient China (1989). He writes (1989, p.  168) :

Although well aware of the difficulties of relating names to objects in the art of discourse, [the Moist] seems to see the lucid and self-evident relations between names as raising no theoretical problems. Chinese civilization never abstracted the forms in which we observe it reasoning in practice, as in this curiously familiar-sounding syllogism of Wang Ch’ung:

Man is a thing: though honored as king or noble, by nature he is no different from other things. No thing does not die, how can man be immortal?

Wang Ch’ung [1] uses a valid syllogism, that combines true propositions producing a sound conclusion, « Humans are beings, no being is immortal, no human is immortal.” In the unfriendly language of traditional logic, this reasoning is described as a syllogism of the fourth figure, said Galenic, and in the Camenes mode: « all H is B; no B is I; therefore no H is I. »
Wang Ch’ung presents this incontrovertible conclusion as a so-called “rhetorical » question, which is a challenge to any opponent (Toulmin, 1958: 97); this introduces a dialectical movement within syllogistic reasoning.

*

A little further on, Graham attributes to Mozi’s disciples

A sense of rigorous proof [combined with] a disregard for logical forms. (1989, p. 169)

Hsün-tzu, like the later Mohists, has no deductive forms like the syllogism, but does mark off deductive inference as a separate type of thinking. (id. p. 267)

How is this possible? An analogy can be drawn from language and grammar. According to specialists, the ancient Chinese had no grammar [2]; and they certainly spoke excellent Chinese. By the same token, they did not develop a logic (an art of reasoning), and they argued very well. In other words, it is not necessary to have a clear view of what is a valid and sound argument, in order to master an effective practice of such arguments.

*

This conclusion can (a fortiori?) be generalized to non-syllogistic forms of argumentation: A theory of argumentation is not a prerequisite for an effective practice of argumentation.

The point of departure of the workshop and the conference from which this volume [Powerful arguments] emerged is the striking paradox between the abundance of practices and the virtual absence of theories related to the making of powerful arguments in late imperial China. (Hofman, Kurtz, Levine,  2020, p. 1) [3]

One can develop a clear idea and an effective critical argumentative practice without formalization, that is, without developing a a logical meta-language about the process of argumentation, and the correlative critical operations.

It follows that the teaching of argumentation can do without argumentation theory. Western-style theories of argumentation are not essential to the coherent articulation of ideas. Argumentation can be taught by showing and discussing paradigmatic examples of argument. Such examples can be paraphrased, denied, contradicted, generalized; their presuppositions and implications can be explored without ever leaving the level of natural discourse.


[1] Mozi (c. 479 – c.392 B.C.), eponymous author of the work Mozi.
Wang Chu’ng = Wang Chong, Lun Heng — Philosophical Essays, ch.24; trad. Forke V,I, 335f.  (Note Graham). Wang Chong, 27 – c. 97 AD, « developed a rational, secular, naturalistic and mechanistic view of the world and man, and gave a materialistic explanation of the origin of the universe » (Wikipedia).

[2] « In ancient China, a few centuries before the Christian era, linguistic reflection had already begun to produce excellent results: we find important reflections on the nature of language, very elaborate dictionaries, systems of phonological description and dialectology. However, […] the analysis of grammatical structures is practically absent. Apart from an enormous production of studies on individual words or groups of words, there is almost nothing on the organic description of language » (Casacchia, 1989: 431).

[3] Hofmann M., J. Kurtz & A. D. Levine (2020), Powerful Arguments — Standards of Validity in Late Imperial China. Leiden, Brill.

ACTTC — A Paradigm Case of Analogy

ATC A Paradigm Case of Analogy

Western presentation of argument patterns have two main sections:
— the first focuses on the pattern itself,
— while the second provides an example illustrating the pattern.

The following passage may be taken as a paradigmatic case of analogy:

The wise man who has charge of governing the empire should know the cause of disorder before he can put it in order. Unless he knows its cause, he cannot regulate it. It is similar to the problem of a physician who is attending a patient. He has to know the cause of the ailment before he can cure it. Unless he knows its cause, he cannot cure it. How is the situation different for him who is to regulate disorder? He too has to know the cause of the disorder before he can regulate it. Unless he knows its cause, he cannot regulate it. The wise man who has charge of governing the empire must, then, investigate the cause of disorder.
MoziMEI, Universal Love 4, I.

The passage is presented as one sole paragraph in the original text. The following numbering and disposition are ours:

1. The wise man who has charge of governing the empire should know the cause of disorder before he can put it in order. 2. Unless he knows its cause, he cannot regulate it.

3. It is similar to the problem of a physician who is attending a patient.
4. He has to know the cause of the ailment before he can cure it. 5. 5. Unless he knows its cause, he cannot cure it.

6. How is the situation different for him who is to regulate disorder? 7. He too has to know the cause of the disorder before he can regulate it. 8.Unless he knows its cause, he cannot regulate it.

9. The wise man who has charge of governing the empire must, then, investigate the cause of disorder.

Mozi’s demonstration  takes place in two stages, the first justifying the thesis and the second confirming that no one dares to answer it. No rebuttal is mentioned.

Positive argumentation

— Claim: (1) and (2) state the thesis

(1)        To put the government in order = O

To know the cause of the disorder = C
Proposition (1) expresses a necessary condition (NC):
For O (to put the government in order), C (to know the cause of the disorder) is necessary
Which is noted: O => C (O requires, implies C).

(2) reformulates the thesis:

(1) C is a NC of O = (2) non-C implies non-O.

Warrant: Elucidation of the argumentation scheme, (3) announces that the thesis will be proved by an argument by analogy. Warrant: « is similar to »; implicit backing: the traditional assimilation of the « human body » to the « social body ».

— Argument
Source domain
: Medicine. (4) presents a fact (as) known and admitted by all.
The structure of the argument strictly follows the structure of the thesis by substituting the doctor (who repairs the human body) for the wise man (who seeks how to repair human society).

The modes of sentence construction are identical. The presentation of the analogy as a parallel case pushes the similarity to identity.

Search for a refutation

A test of the validity of the analogy follows in the form of a rhetorical question, (5), interpreted as a challenge to a possible opponent, who is given the floor to show that the analogy is invalid. Question (5) remaining unanswered, this maneuver concludes with an argument from ignorance.

The argumentation repeats (reinforces, confirms) the essential element of the argument, the claim: (6) and (7) repeat word for word (1) and (2). This introduces into the reasoning an element of rhetorical persuasion (epikeirema) into the argumentation.

(8) repeats the thesis by replacing the expression « must know » (1) with « must investigate », the first step on the way to knowledge. To investigate and to know must not be understood in their contemporary sense.

*

LOGICO-LINGUISTIC SCHEMES AND PARADIGM CASE

The same idea of argumentation scheme can be understood in two equivalent ways.

In intension, as an abstract, logico-semantic form expressing the essence of reasoning. The scheme of the opposites and the a fortiori scheme are examples of such forms.

In extension, as the potentially very large set of passages assembled on the basis of their argumentative similarity; the set of arguments that can be paraphrased by the same formula; the set of arguments that derive from the same phrasal pattern. A functional knowledge of arguments can be based on paradigmatic examples.

ATCCT — Necessity of Controversy

ATC

Necessity of controversy

Disputation is central to the period of the Hundred Schools of Thought, which flourished during the periods known as the « Spring and Autumn » and the « Warring States, » from the 779 to 221 BC.

The Confucian philosopher Mencius (Mengzi, 372-289 BC), a disciple of Confucius, justifies his practice of disputation as a necessity if one wants to preserve the truth in times of proliferation of systems of thought, which, according to Mengzi, endanger the true,

Gongduzi said, Master, outsiders all say you are fond of disputation. What do you say to that?’

Mencius said, How could it be that I am fond of disputation? I simply have no choice. The world has existed for a long time, now in order, now in chaos. In the time of Yao, the waters ran awry and flooded the central states; eels and dragons dwelt there and the people had no security. […]

But after the deaths of Yao and Shun the Dao of the sages declined and tyrants arose one after another. They leveled homes in order to create their pleasure ponds and the people had no place to rest. They took fields out of cultivation to create their pleasure parks and the people had no way to eat. And then there arose errant teachings and patterns of violent conduct. […]

But no sage king has arisen [after Confucius]. The lords of the states act with abandon and gentlemen in retirement proclaim deviant doctrines. The words of Yang Zhu and Mo Di fill the world such that those who do not preach the doctrines of Yang Zhu preach those of Mozi. The maxim of the Yangists is ‘Each for himself,’ a world of men without rulers; the maxim of the Mohists is ‘universal love,’ a world of men without fathers. To know no father and no ruler – this is to be nothing but a beast! […] If the daos of Yang and Mo don’t cease and the Dao of Confucius is not clear to all, then deviant doctrines will deceive the people and humanity and righteousness will be blocked. To block out humanity and righteousness is to lead the beasts and devour the people, and the people will be led to eat one another.

This is why I am alarmed, and why I defend the Dao of the past sages and confront Yangists and Mohists, driving out depraved speech so that errant doctrines will no longer flourish.
(MenciusEno 3B.9)

In this passage, ‘disputation’ is not employed as a means of establishing a common truth, but to eradicate the « bad doctrines » of the opponents. The outcome of the controversy is entirely negative, it bears no fruit.
This position is very different from that of paradox lovers, who appreciate paradoxes purely for the sake of paradoxical language.

 

ATCCT Rectification of Names

ATC

NAME and « RECTIFICATION OF NAMES »

Rectification of names

12.1. Duke Jing of Qi asked Confucius about government. Confucius replied,
« Let the ruler be ruler, the ministers ministers, the fathers fathers, the sons sons sons. » AnalectsENO 2015

We consider that « to be ruler, minister… » is to fulfill a social function while « to be father, to be son » is to fulfill a natural function. A father, a son cannot not be father, son. Confucius’ requirements seem empty, because tautological; but they are not.

The social category name is not equivalent to a set of descriptive property; it  is an imperative.

A ruler is a ruler only if he governs according to the model of exemplary Kings, such as King Wen. A bad ruler is not a ruler; he should not be called a ruler. A bad father is not a father; he should not be called a father, even if a biological one.
A woman who does not behave according the rules of exemplary women is not a woman and should not be called woman nor considered as a woman.
By turning bad, they lose their name.

To unduly bear a name is an usurpation. When such  wrong names become current – most of the rulers, fathers, students are actually not fathers, etc, chaos prevails.

It seems that this vision extends to artefacts. A table is defined by  its place and function as defined in the ritual. In the West, we sit and eat at a table. If we dance on a table, the table is no more a table. Same for a gourd:

AnalectsENO, 6.25
The Master said, A gourd that is not a gourd – is it a gourd? Is it a gourd?

Note ENO: Gourds were used as a certain type of wine vessel, called, therefore, ‘gourds’. This passage must refer to some irregularity of vessel usage, and, in doing so, raise the issue of the distortion of language to cover up unorthodox conduct. An implied meaning might be that a ‘ruler’ who does not properly ‘rule’ should not be called a ‘ruler’ – an idea that has come to be known as part of a doctrine called ‘the rectification of names’.


[1] Quoted after http://archives.charles-de-gaulle.org/pages/espace-pedagogique/le-point-sur/les-textes-a-connaitre/discours-du-30-mai-1968.php (11-08-2017)

An application: MenciusLAU, 1B.8

1B.8 King Xuan of Qi asked, “Is it so that Tang banished Jie and that King Wu killed Zhòu?”
Mencius replied, “It is so recorded in the histories.”

“Is it permissible, then, for a subject to kill his ruling lord?”
Mencius said, “A man who plunders humanity is called a thief; a man who plunders righteousness is called an outcast. I have heard of the execution of Outcast Zhòu; I have not heard of the execution of a ruling lord Zhòu.

Eno, Preface, p. 15
Mencius held that kings only enjoyed mandates to rule to the extent that they governed to the benefit of those whom they ruled. He insisted that the population was the most important component of the state, not the king (7B.14), and that rulers who abandoned this charge were, in effect, no longer rulers: of the murder of the tyrannical last king of the Shang he denied that any act of regicide was involved, saying that an outcast had been executed, not a ruler (1B.8)


Natural categories group beings are named according to a certain organization of their natural characteristics, based on the similarity of the object with the beings recognized as typical of the category.

Social categories are groupings of persons sharing the same type of social role. King, nobleman, were considered as natural categories, now clearly as social categories, as minister, teacher, leader are social functions. There is a dispute about man, woman, father, son… whether they should be considered as social roles or natural categories. In a famous passage of the Analects,

Live up to the name of the social category you belong to!

The  speech made by General de Gaulle on 3ay 30 1968 uses self-argued statements:

As for the legislative elections, they will take place within the period established by the Constitution, unless the whole French people are to be gagged, preventing them from speaking as they are prevented from living, by the same means that prevent students from studying, teachers from teaching and workers from working.
(Charles de Gaulle, Speech on May 30, 1968[1])

In a well-made world, “students study, teachers teach and workers work” if not, the semantic disorder argues the abnormality of beings who don’t act according to their essential principle.

This is an argument based on the name, « let the students study » that is to say « be worthy of their name ». The argument traces the social order over the natural order (Plantin 2021, Name). The name of the category to which the person belongs expresses the norm that governs his behavior.

These self-evident arguments are based on a license to infer according to which the derivational families are semantically consistent. The morphological similarity may obscure deep semantic differences between the root word and the derived word, which meaning may range from the conservation of the root meaning, to opposition between their connotations or argumentative orientations, to the complete independence of meanings in synchrony. By a kind of antanaclasis S. Orientation, the following exchange plays on the opposite argumentative orientations of words belonging to the same lexical family, politic:

S1 — By signing this compromise at a convenient moment, the president made a highly political decision.
S2 — We are just witnessing a new example of the President’s usual politicking


 ATCCT — Sélection des partenaires de dialogue

Criteria for selecting dialogue partners

In classical Western culture, what is considered appropriate is what is said or done in accordance with the vague rules of decorum — that is to say, what is ‘controlled, calm and polite’ (Cambridge Dictionary, ‘decorum’). Decorum implies caution and decency.

In classical Chinese culture, appropriate speech and behaviour are defined by the rules of ritual, which govern all conduct, including drinking alcohol or tea and conversing with a master.
These rules are set out in the Liji (Classic of Rites or Book of Rites), one of the five Chinese classics.
In the first chapter of his writings, ‘Exhortation to Learning‘, the philosopher Xunzi (298–238 BCE) recalls the principles to be observed in interactions between gentlemen willing to discuss « the methods of the Way ». We have introduced numbering and a segmented presentation.

    1. Do not answer one who asks about something improper.
    2. Do not ask questions of one who speaks on something improper.
    3. Do not listen to one who tries to persuade you of something improper.
    4. Do not debate with a person of combative demeanor.
    5. Only if people approach you in the proper way should you receive them. If they do not approach you in the proper way, then avoid them.
    6. And so, only if they follow ritual and are reverent should you discuss the methods of the Way with them.
    7. Only if their speech is calm should you discuss the methods of the Way with them.
    8. Only if their countenance is agreeable should you discuss the culmination of the Way with them.
    9. To discuss these things with those unfit to discuss them is called being presumtuous.
    10. Not to discuss these things with those fit to discuss them is called being secretive.
    11. To discuss these things without first observing the person’s manner and countenance is called being blind.
    12. The gentleman is neither presumptuous nor secretive nor blind; he carefully acts according to the other person’s character. The Odes says: The gentlemen are not indolent or haughty /Rewarded by the Son of Heaven shall they be.
      XunziHutton, 2016, p. 6-7

Xunzi’s recommendations are addressed to the Sage, who is approached by someone he does not know. This aspiring interlocutor with the Sage is evaluated as soon as he approaches him, in the first moments of the discussion.
This evaluation is based on his ability to conform to the ‘rite’. The terms ‘improper’ (1), ‘proper’ (2, 3, 5) and ‘ritual’ (6) refer to the notion of propriety, or ‘what is appropriate’, which conforms to the rules of ritual.
These meticulous rules define appropriate behaviour (4: demeanour) and facial expression (8: countenance). Aggressiveness (4: combative demeanour) is particularly frowned upon; argumentative personalities are undesirable and calmness is valued. This is a Confucian quality.

The Master was warm, yet severe; awesome, yet never harsh; reverent, yet calm.
AnalectsEno, 7.38

In the Confucian tradition, the Sage lives according to ritual, and therefore according to human nature:

Rules of propriety are not a body of ceremonies, but natural principles.
Chu Hsi, Lü Tsu Ch’ien. Reflections on things at hand, p. 128.

He can only be approached by someone who knows how to conform to it. The rite expresses the principles that define human beings and their activities. It provides the criterion for evaluating the degree of excellence of individuals, whether or not they are worthy of pursuing intellectual and spiritual research.

The parrot can speak, and yet is nothing more than a bird; the ape can speak, and yet is nothing more than a beast. Here now is a man who observes no rules of propriety; is not his heart that of a beast? But if (men were as) beasts, and without (the principle of) propriety, father and son might have the same mate. Therefore, when the sages arose, they framed the rules of propriety in order to teach men, and cause them, by their possession of them, to make a distinction between themselves and brutes.
Liji – Chap. 1, Qu Li “Summary of the Rules of Propriety – Part 1” §9

Nous sommes loin de la conception occidentale du rite comme mode d’organisation conventionnelle d’un type d’événements, voire comme symptôme névrotique. Cette vision du monde étant étrangère au monde occidental contemporain, il n’y aurait pas grand sens à rapprocher ces recommandations des règles de politesse (empiriques), ou de règles sur le dialogue argumentatif (normées par la raison), ou des règles conventionnelles explicites qui organisent les cérémonies occidentales.
Les grands systèmes occidentaux ne mentionnent pas de tels critères d’exclusion des discutants, à l’exception peut-être de Perelman & Olbrechts-Tyteca (1958), qui n’admettent pas n’importe quel interlocuteur

We are far removed from the Western conception of ritual as a conventional way of organizing certain types of recurring situation, or even as a neurotic symptom. As this Confucean worldview of ritual is foreign to us, it would not make much sense to compare these recommendations to our (empirical) rules of politeness, or to rules on argumentative reasonable dialogue.

The major Western systems do not mention such criteria for excluding discussants, with the possible exception of Perelman [2] & Olbrechts-Tyteca (1958), who explicitly do not admit just any interlocutor

There are people with whom any contact may seem superfluous or undesirable; there are people with whom we do not want to talk; there are also people with whom we do not want to discuss, but simply give orders. (1958, p. 20)


[1] Dans le lexique qui accompagne cette traduction de Mencius, Eno conserve le mot chinois junzi pour désigner le Sage ayant atteint un haut degré de développement moral et utilise le terme gentleman pour désigner le shi, simple aspirant à l’excellence morale (MenciusEno, p. 146). Nous assistons ici à la démarche du shi qui désire prendre un junzi pour modèle.

[2] Voir Plantin, Dictionnaire de l’argumentation, 2016 et 2021, art. Règles – Coopération – Rationalité et rationalisation – Normes – etc.

ATCCT — Contradiction face à face

Comme l’autocontradiction, la contradiction interpersonnelle exige une clarification. Le désaccord stimule l’échange et l’activité intellectuelle,

The Master said: I can speak with Hui all day and he will never contradict me, like a dolt. But after he withdraws, when I survey his personal conduct, indeed he is ready to go forth. He’s no dolt! (Id. , 2.9)

Confucius dit implicitement qu’il préfère le désaccord, “Hui ne me contredit jamais, comme un imbécile” — donc les imbéciles ne contredisent jamais leur maître, et c’est cette inférence implicite qui nous intéresse. Mais, en ce qui concerne Hui, cette première conclusion, tirée du comportement verbal de Hui est renversée par une constatation décisive, d’un ordre supérieur, tirée de l’observation de sa conduite. Hui est le disciple préféré de Confucius, et sa mort le plongera dans le désarroi le plus profond (Id. 11.8-11)

 

 

 

 

ATCCT — Différends entre Confucius et ses disciples

ATC Arguments between Confucius and his disciples

Confucius souhaite qu’on résiste à ce qu’il dit

11.4 The Master said, Hui is of no help to me. There is nothing in my words that fails to please him.

Mais si Hui ne contredit pas, il n’en pense pas moins

Comme l’autocontradiction, la contradiction interpersonnelle exige une clarification. Le désaccord stimule l’échange et l’activité intellectuelle,

2,9 The Master said: I can speak with Hui all day and he will never contradict me, like a dolt. But after he withdraws, when I survey his personal conduct, indeed he is ready to go forth. He’s no dolt! 

Confucius dit implicitement qu’il préfère le désaccord, “Hui ne me contredit jamais, comme un imbécile” — donc les imbéciles ne contredisent jamais leur maître, et c’est cette inférence implicite qui nous intéresse. Mais, en ce qui concerne Hui, cette première conclusion, tirée du comportement verbal de Hui est renversée par une constatation décisive, d’un ordre supérieur, tirée de l’observation de sa conduite. Hui est le disciple préféré de Confucius, et sa mort le plongera dans le désarroi le plus profond (Id. 11.8-11)

Zilu fait face au maître

Apprendre dans les livres, Bien se comporter: l’accord

Ad hominem refutation always requires a certain amount of editing of the target’s words or words and actions. For example, it is always unpleasant for a master to be critically confronted with his own teaching. In passages 1.6 and 1.7 of the Confucius Analects, the scholar is characterised by his correct behaviour towards worthy people, his parents, people in general, his masters (those who are ren), and seems to attach only secondary importance to knowledge of the texts.

1.6. The Master said: A young man should be filial within his home and respectful of elders when outside, should be careful and trustworthy, broadly caring of people at large, and should cleave to those who are ren. If he has energy left over, he may study the refinements of culture (wen).

Zixia, a disciple of Confucius, offers a definition of a scholar along the same lines, though perhaps less categorically,

1.7. Zixia said: If a person treats worthy people as worthy and so alters his expression, exerts all his effort when serving his parents, exhausts himself when serving his lord, and is trustworthy in keeping his word when in the company of friends, though others may say he is not yet learned, I would call him learned.
AnalectsEno, 1.6-7

Zilu fait face au maître

In another passage, Zilu, one of Confucius’ disciples, has just hired another of his disciples, Zigao. Confucius seems to reproach him for this:

1, 25 Zilu appointed Zigao to be the steward of Bi. The Master said, “You are stealing  another man’s son!”
Zilu said, “There are people there; there are altars of state there – why must one first read texts and only then be considered learned?”
The Master said, “This is why I detest glib talkers!”
AnalectsEno, 1, 25

The Master seems to take offence at Zilu’s repartee.
Again, R. Eno’s note clarifies the passage by relating it to an earlier passage,

Note Eno : Zilu seems to be invoking lessons Confucius himself taught, much like the ideas in 1.6-7, to confound Confucius himself, which is the basis of Confucius’s answer.
En effet, en 11, 25 Zilu lui rappelle qu’il a dit qu’un comportement parfaitement réglé vis à vis des personnes de référence – parents, Seigneur, amis – suffisait pour que quelqu’un soit reconnu comme « a learned [person] », et traité comme tel, par exemple en recevant un emploi. Zilu se défend ainsi de lui avoir “volé Zigao”, ou défend la décision de Zigao.

This contradiction is just one way of exercising the right of admonition, which is the counterpart of the right and duty of obedience to the ruler and the father.

_______________

[1] Leslie, Donald, 1964. Argument by Contradiction in Pre-Buddhist Chinese Reasoning. Faculty of Asian Studies, ANU., Canberra.